Damona Hoffman is the resident love expert on The Drew Barrymore Show, OkCupid’s official dating coach, columnist for The L.A. Times and The Washington Post, and host of The Dates & Mates Podcast that just celebrated its 400th episode. She joins me today to dive into the good, the bad, and the uncomfortable when it comes to dating and relationships.
Listen in as we discuss our own experiences in the dating and relationship world, including how Damona learned how to see that the things that made her different growing up actually turned out to be her superpowers. Damona also shares when you should start thinking about dating again after a breakup, when to have the financial conversation with your partner, and some of the most common red flags when it comes to dating.
What You’ll Learn:
How choosing your partner is one of the most important decisions in your life.
The two biggest predictors of long-term compatibility.
The factors that brought Damona to where she is now.
What the right time is to get back into the dating game.
The red flags to watch for when looking for a mate.
How to break bad patterns in relationships.
When to have the financial conversation with your partner.
The “Three C’s” when it comes to captivating dating profiles.
Ideas Worth Sharing:
“Who you choose to partner with affects every other area of your life.” - Damona Hoffman
“The standard of beauty where I lived was not how I looked.” - Damona Hoffman
“When people argue about money, it’s usually not solely about money.” - Damona Hoffman
Resources:
Transcript:
Molly Dare 0:08
I am joined today by the amazing Damona Hoffman, resident love expert on the Drew Barrymore show OKCupid official dating coach advice columnist for LA Times and writer on dating and relationships for The Washington Post host of the long running podcast Dates and Mates, which has just recorded its 400th episode, which is like 4000 in podcast years. That's that's amazing and worth celebrating on its own, Damona, Welcome.
Damona Hoffman 0:36
Thank you so much, man. I'm tired, just hearing all that stuff. I do I do. And like I, and I love helping people find love. And I truly believe Molly that who you choose to partner with affects every other area of your life, it has certainly changed my life. And so I want to spread the good word.
Molly Dare 1:04
Well, speaking of I love your latest Instagram post, you talk about being just back from vacation. And it reconfirmed how choosing your partner is the most important decision of your life. Talk a little bit about that. Why was that a realization for you on vacation with your spouse?
Damona Hoffman 1:23
You're right, I did say that. See, I'm walking the walk here. You know, I would say I so we ended up having a condo with my in laws, and my kids and my husband and I, and everything we got along so well. And it was just so functional. And I don't necessarily come from a family of function, Molly. So for me to be able to see what's possible when people communicate when people are authentic, when people are thoughtful, and see how it is possible. Even if that's not your family of origin. Even if that's not your nature, like people, I feel like the the attachment styles have had, they've been around for a while, but they've recently come back and popularity. And people sometimes rest I'm like, well, that's just my attachment style. I'm just an anxious attachment. I'm just, I'm just I'm just avoidant. And I have been able to become securely attached because I have worked on it. And I married someone who is securely attached who came from a solid foundation, a great relationship, set of relationship role models. And I love that I get to live that. And I get to show people how they can change the narrative if they believed maybe what I used to believe way back when
Molly Dare 2:48
you know, and that's an interesting conversation, which I want to dive a little bit into. And then I want to go into your own dating journey and how you got to where you are today. But it is interesting when you look at people's backgrounds, and is it important that you have similar backgrounds? Or are there complementary backgrounds that you can have that maybe it's not the same but it complements each other or brings out something really great in you that you didn't even know existed? As you just mentioned?
Damona Hoffman 3:15
You ask really great questions. It, I think it's a combination of both. But one thing that I have my clients do when we begin our dating coaching process together is have them really clarify what are their values? And what are the goals that they have for the future. And those are the two biggest predictors of long term compatibility. There are a couple others, which we can talk about if you would like. But those are the most important things that I have people focus on. And a lot of times we look at the window dressing, oh, that person's a different, a different religion from me, that person's a different race. They come from a different area, they, they're different, and we're looking at, we're looking at false predictors of compatibility. And we're not looking at anything that really drives into the root of who that person is, and how they live their life. So I can't really say if opposites attract or if similarity attracts, because it depends on the factors that you're looking at.
Molly Dare 4:13
It makes complete sense. Now I want to go to your journey, your dating journey and what brought you to a meeting your husband the right one the right match that you can go on vacation with the inlaws the kids and still come back and win peace and happy which is pretty amazing for most people. But looking into your friends relationships growing up, was this always something that you loved or dove into or did it happen later in life?
Damona Hoffman 4:37
I would say it happened later in life. I did do a few setups in high school, but I never thought of it as a career. In fact, I didn't think of it as a career even for several years after I had already been doing it. I was you know, I come from a very unconventional background. My mother is black and she's from I'm she's from the projects in Detroit. My dad is Jewish and the son of Russian immigrants to the United States. And they met, and they made this enigma. And I grew up in a very homogenous, a homogenous, white, suburban neighborhood. And in a way, I think I felt when I was younger, like, I didn't fit in anywhere. And, you know, I, I, I got by and I, I had friends, I, I made it work. But I never really felt like I was attractive. I was never the girl that that got asked to prom, I never had a boyfriend in high school. And I really internalized a lot of that, because the standard of beauty where I lived, was not how I look. And I struggled with that for many years, until I was working with a coach actually. And she had me really do a lot of a lot of self work, a lot of healing my inner child, and a lot of coming to see my the things that made me different as superpowers instead of as deficits. And once I leaned into that I ended up meeting my husband, there's, there's a lot more to the process. I'm shortcutting, like 20 years of a story. But I ended up meeting my husband on a dating site, not even app back then I met my husband online. And then people started coming to me for my secrets, which I'm happy to share with you today. And I was doing that I was helping people write their dating profiles on the side for probably six or seven years ago while I was working as a television executive. And then after I had my daughter, I went back to my TV executive job and it just didn't feel right. And I said, What else could I do with my life? I've been doing these profiles. I'll, I'll try that out. And then as soon as I stepped into this new lane, things took off very quickly. And it's been clear to me after many career transitions, that I finally found my my calling now, I mean, I've been doing it for over 15 years, but
Molly Dare 7:19
you clearly have not only have you been doing it for too long, and you've had tremendous success, and I mean, you're on the Drew Barrymore show who I absolutely adore, by the way. Amazing. And, you know, I think it's very interesting, something that you touched upon, and this hits home for me is, and it's a question that comes up a lot, especially for my audience. And as I was saying, before we started recording that a lot of the people listening are women who are starting over who are finding kind of this next stage in their life. And sometimes I'm going to speak for myself here, it's like, I want time to get myself together so that I can be the best version of myself before I put myself back out in the dating game. But then I have the, you know, I have like an angel on the shoulder and the devil on the shoulder kind of like don't wait, what are you waiting for, you know, get get yourself out there? And it's like, no, I gotta be the best version of me because I have been in back to back long relationships since I was 15 years old. And this is kind of the first time for the past two years that I've been single. And I kind of really love it. And I love how I've been able to work on myself. So is there a right time to get back in the game? Or should you just jump right back in?
Damona Hoffman 8:31
Yes. And all of the above? I think in some situations, like if you've been through a trauma, you've been through a really emotionally taxing breakup, you probably need some time to heal. And people always ask me like, what's the, what's the perfect amount of time, like, there's all these formulas? It's half the amount of time you were together plus 10 months, or whatever it was that simple. It's not that simple. Yeah, that. So I try to get people to a place where they feel like they know themselves. And they date from that place. And that could happen in a week. That could happen in five years. But if you've been in a series of long term relationships, sometimes when you're in these relationships for a while, you don't even realize how much your your interests your your identity has become, you know, overlapped with another person. And that does take some time to just disentangle and say, who am I? What makes me tick, what lights me up? What do I want to do? And then we also get clarity in my program on what Who do you want to meet? How do you want to feel in a relationship? I take away a lot of the list making but get more into the understanding meaning of what is this life that I'm building? How do I want to feel? How does this person fit into my life? And then we go from there, but I really believe that we learn relationally. And we can do a lot of theory. And believe me, I've had people go through my program, and they're like, Okay, I know all this stuff. I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready yet. And I, I, I wait for the day when they can really be ready to put themselves out there. Because that's when I see the big shifts when you're, you're processing all this stuff. And then you get into a challenging conversation. And you see, oh, 10 years ago, I might have acted like this, but now I'm reacting. I'm responding thoughtfully. I'm not reacting. I'm not yelling, I'm not losing my temper, or I'm not feeling judged or feeling uncomfortable. You see that growth in in relation to other people
Molly Dare 10:53
Absolutely. And can I tell you what's really holding me back lately, and I think a lot of people can resonate. This is with like the tinder swindler and all of these documentaries coming out, and just how easily it is to manipulate yourself on social media. And it's like, what is what I'm seeing real because we all Google, the first thing we do when we get somebody's name, or hear anything about anybody, especially if you're being set up is we google the person and what's real and what's not. What are some red flags that we should look for?
Damona Hoffman 11:23
First of all, the tinder swindler is an extreme, extreme situation. That's why they made a movie about it. So everybody is like, Oh, this is this is all the people that are online, most of the people you meet online are not going to be to that level. I will tell you the red flags that I saw when I watched the tinder swindler, I'm not victim shaming in any way, because I think anyone could have gotten swept up in the motions. And guys, like, I forget with the tin, let's let's not even let's not even validate him by saying his name. That guy. He was a he was an expert at this. He had he had it's like, think of like a salesperson. That is always right. Yeah. Right. You're always pitching they fine tune what is their what is their stick, and he had it all worked out. So he had the Instagram to back up. Because he knew he knew he knew that ladies were going to be Googling him and Instagram and him and all that. So he thought about that, and he worked out. But when he matched with the let's just talk about, like the first person on Tinder swindler, and for anyone that hasn't seen it, so it's a good, it's good viewing. But you can still follow along, he matched and then there was an urgency like he had to meet right away. He had to meet right away anything where like, the timeline feels weird, like they want to talk that night. They want to meet that night, or they don't ever want to meet. Those are also red flags. But he had an urgency to it. He and then he also took her off the platform. A lot of people didn't realize that. But she said in in WhatsApp, which is where a lot of scammers like yes, it's helped people to communicate internationally a lot. But it's also where a lot of scammers because they can't they can they can communicate across borders. That's where they then take the conversation because then the app can't track you anymore. And the thing is, all of these things are happening, not just on dating apps. There's so much going down in the DMS. Molly, like there are so many Oh yeah, hookups and messages, you know, it's going down the DMS. And yet people have this fear of online dating because it's sort of a concentrated area where people are have the hope of finding a match that they're afraid of that when we it's the whole culture has shifted. So Okay, back to red flags. Look for urgency. Don't go off the platform in your communication. And then the number one is don't give anybody money, especially like, she'd only known him for a month.
Molly Dare 14:08
Yeah, no mmm mm.
Damona Hoffman 14:10
And he's spun a great tale. He's spun a great tale. And I have seen that happen. And I have seen even lower level criminals do that. But more of what I've seen is people having having the chance to to date after breakups. I have a lot of women that are over 40 over 50 that never really dated that married their high school or college sweetheart, right? And then they're like, Oh, here's this pool of people when otherwise like, I don't know about you, Molly, I'm not going up in the club anymore. My club days are done. Now, what else are you gonna do? It took so much more effort, the old way.
Molly Dare 14:50
Oh my gosh, and it's so I'm 43 years old. Okay, so I was I was in as I mentioned, a lot of long term relationships consecutively. My marriage was 10 years. I then got into a seven year relationship after that. And it's just been, I've never really dated, I just kind of met through work or friends, you know, it just naturally kind of organically happened. So this is my first time. I mean, honestly, I was married at 23 years old, like, I've never been in the dating pool. Now, what I noticed about myself, and I think a lot of people can resonate with this one is I have a pattern of people that I tend to date and fall into relationships with that clearly are not the right person for me,
Damona Hoffman 15:28
let's talk about that.
Molly Dare 15:30
Let's talk about that.
Damona Hoffman 15:32
What is the pattern that you have noticed, Molly,
Molly Dare 15:35
I tend to fall into a pattern of dating people that I ended up needing to help, or that I ended up taking care of. And physically, they all kind of have a similar aesthetic, if you will, if you looked at them on paper, they are very similar businessman, you know, moderate level of success, all those things, but I ended up there's something in them, they're attracted to me at first, this is what's very interesting, they're talking to me at first because they love how independent I am. And I'm a career woman, etc. But that tends to be then our undoing. Because once they have me, they want me to be the get a little insecure about my independence. And what I have,
Damona Hoffman 16:18
how clear are you when you're dating? And it's probably hard to say in those relationships? Because it's been a, it's been a minute, but were you clear upfront about your goals?
Molly Dare 16:31
No.
Damona Hoffman 16:31
Or did you Okay, no, tell me more?
Molly Dare 16:34
No, I think this is great therapy for me. Thank you. I'm sure everyone's interesting. Um, no, I think. And I think now I'm much better. I'm very upfront, I now I'm kind of gone the opposite way. But I would say in all of the relationships before, I wanted to be the perfect match for them. And so I kind of, I don't know what the word is, but I'd be like, Okay, I kind of figure out people pretty quick. And I'm like, This is how I can be the perfect match for them. This is how I can complement this person. And then I stick in that role. But I really wasn't doing what I wanted, or what, or go after a life that I felt good about was more about how can I fit into there's,
Damona Hoffman 17:18
you literally hit the nail on the head. And I think this is a problem that a lot of a lot of, particularly women share, because, you know, so many of us were groomed to be accommodating to and even just back to the story I told you about how I grew up for a second, I was saying I never fit in anywhere. Because when I was trying to be something else, some other standard of beauty some other identity, downplay things about myself that made me unique. I couldn't, I couldn't get in. And as soon as I flipped that and was like, oh, no, these are my superpowers. These are my attractors. All those things about you, Molly that you just told me are going to really be the thing that attracts the person right person to you. But when you bend yourself into pretzels to accommodate the other person they become used to that being your role.
Molly Dare 18:20
And I also like looking back at it, I think that I probably had an internal struggle of being this independent person who has to her own career, but also wanting to be the perfect person for them. And I think that was probably my regardless of their part in our demise. That was probably an issue on my end is this internal struggle that I constantly had of being the person they need versus who I am. And I think I'm at least acknowledging it now going into relationships going forward. I certainly haven't perfected anything as I'm still single. But you know, another thing that that causes a lot of friction. In my past relationships, and I'm sure for a lot is financial issues and being on the same page when it comes to finances. I wish I had had the conversations earlier to know if we were on the same page and what would you how important of a conversation is it to have? When do you have it? And is it a deal breaker if you guys really look at finances completely differently?
Damona Hoffman 19:21
Hmm. I actually just did a dates to mates episode on this because I saw this was an issue that was coming up like, like coming out of the pandemic. Are we coming out of the pandemic? I'm not really sure.
Molly Dare 19:34
He just announced an hour ago that we are officially out of the pandemic. I just saw that come across. Yeah,
Damona Hoffman 19:41
oh my gosh, it's been a rhetorical question for so long. Are we out of the pandemic?
Molly Dare 19:46
Well, I mean, yeah Dr Fauci thinks so at least.
Damona Hoffman 19:49
Okay. So I guess say, coming out of the pandemic. A lot of people are in different financial situations. A lot of people lost jobs. A lot of people went into debt, some people accrued medical debt like this is this is a big question that keeps coming up on dates and mates. So I was like, How can I? Can I give people a framework? Because I think even what we thought we believed about how much money we needed, how we wanted to live our lives, isn't the same as it was two years ago. So it's worth really evaluating what does that look like for you? And I'm really curious, when you ask the question, to understand when you say differences in how you really I guess relate to money differences in spending habits. What do you specifically mean? Can you give me a specific example?
Molly Dare 20:39
Sure. And it's funny, because in relationships, it's been opposite. So in certain relationships, I was the less conservative one, you know, and I was more of the like, yeah, we have enough to go out Thursday, and Friday shouldn't be a big deal, you know, and then the other ones, he would spend so lavishly that I was the one pulling the reins back and being kind of like, No, we can't do that. And it felt like I was being a killjoy, or almost like the parent in the relationship, which wasn't fun for me, either. But I would say like, in my last relationship, it was the opposite, where they wouldn't spend anything like anything at all. And I just felt so kind of strapped, of not being able to spend even if it was my own money that I made, you know, from whatever it was monitored, or, I was made to feel bad if I spent it on anything that wasn't useful.
Damona Hoffman 21:29
Okay, here's the deal. When people argue about money, it's usually not about money, not solely about money. It's about control. It's about jealousy. It's about self worth. It's about something else. So that's the question. And don't worry, I'm not gonna put you on blast on your own show, Molly. That is a question to think about, what was money a proxy for and each of those situations, and you can answer it if you'd like. Or you could think about it after the show.
Molly Dare 22:05
You're still on the same page. And I'm sure a lot of people are resonating with this. Because it did become a control thing. And it did become I actually got to a point where I was making more than the person I was with. And that became a big bone of contention for us.
Damona Hoffman 22:25
Okay, let's put a pin in that one, because I'm coming back to it. But I want to give you a you asked me for the language and how you talk about it. Right. So what I would suggest is the next time to get an understanding for like, what is your money mean to you? And what did those situations indicate to you about the mismatch in your values, your beliefs, and a way to communicate it is to first just have agreement have agreement about like, when my husband and I first merged bank accounts, which believe me was one of the hardest things I've been to the hardest things I've done. Right? I did, I literally did. I didn't want to, I didn't want to merge. I guess this is a point where I should say, I had an avoidant attachment style. I didn't want to merge bank accounts. And I didn't want to change my name, because those were two things that I had worked so hard to build in my first career. And I couldn't see giving this up as much as I loved this man and wanted to build a life with his man. I was still thinking a little bit of like, well, this is my stuff that I that I built. And that was a big shift for me to say, oh, no, wait, now, this is our stuff. This is our stuff. And we're but to see the benefits of that of like, we can support one another. But we had an agreement. If you spend more than x dollars, that's a conversation. And we would, we would budget very carefully and have agreement on the things that we were spending but still have enough flexibility, like, Okay, you want to spend 100 bucks, you know, you want to go out to lunch with your friends. That's okay. It's just when it gets to this threshold, just run it past me because maybe that was money that we were counting on for something else. So it's just constant conversation and agreements around the money. But I want to go back to this. Who's making more, we're in a period of major social societal shift. And the question I usually get on Dates and Mates is actually about that from high achieving high earning women. How do I find a match when women are out are getting master's degrees at higher rates now than men? So we're, we're lapping them Molly. So if you're only like date to only date someone who's at your financial level or education level or higher, you You may be limiting your pool and that pool may continue to get to get smaller as we go further on this trend. So that again comes back to agreements about what that means. Because it sounds like in this situation that made your prior partners feel like they were they thought their role was to be the the provider or the provider. And if that role is taken from them, they're thinking, what value do I bring to Molly? What am I doing? What what purpose do I have? And then the conversation has to shift around? What are the things that that man brings into your life, if he's not bringing the financial, the Financial Peace
Molly Dare 25:48
is all so good. And it just helps navigate dating life and what to talk about, you know, as you're getting into multiple dates, and I'm really interested in somebody, but I want to rewind to dating apps in general getting on the dating apps to even start this process. Because someone like me, who hasn't been single in forever. And now I'm now I'm single, this whole dating app thing is very new for me. And I know there's a lot of people listening in their 40s and 30s. who are who are kind of newer to the dating app scene. What is the correct way to use them? How often should you go? I have friends who are literally on like three different dates a week, four different days a week, going crazy? And then you know, Is that Is that normal to go? Like three to four different dates a week? Do you are their preferences on which apps dependent on your personality?
Damona Hoffman 26:44
Hmm, what is normal anyway? I will say, I love it. Okay, so now I'll give the other piece of how I came into having this expertise I, I started my career as a casting director. And I found there really talented actors who could could nail a scene but couldn't get their foot in the door, and be seen for an audition. And so I saw a gap in the market to be able to teach actors how to how to get an audition, and then how to nail the audition, once they showed up, instead of putting their foot in their mouth and over target or like doing all these faux pas that that they didn't know because they weren't in those rooms before. So I started teaching classes for actors and marketing, and auditioning. And this is before anyone was talking about personal branding anything. So that was essentially what I was doing was, this is what your photo says to me by the amount of skin you're showing, by the way, it's cropped by where the focal point of the eye goes by which colors you're wearing, by what outfit you're wearing. All of these things tell me information about you. And when I'm a casting director, and I'm going through 100 200 resumes and headshots a day, I need you to get me to stop and pay attention and say, oh, this person is right, for this role, not for all the roles I'm doing. But like, Ah, this is a, this is a match. And that's when I was online dating. And I realized the similarities between a profile photo and a headshot and a first date and an audition. And once I applied those techniques that were working for me in my professional life to my personal life, I ended up meeting my husband. So it all goes back to marketing. And I know people are like I am not a product. I am a person. And that's cool. But you said that the perfect thing, Molly and you you probably didn't even really know that you said it. But you were talking about using the app in the right way. And that is really the key to think of the app as a tool, the app doesn't know you, the app doesn't have feelings. The app isn't listening to your mom, like the app is just has one purpose, and that's to expand your dating pool and make connections to people that you otherwise may not have met in real life. And when you look at it through that lens, you start to think okay, well then how do I? How do I present myself in a way that I'm going to attract the right matches to me? And I'm going to pause because I know that was a lot.
Molly Dare 29:30
No, it's so good. It's all going. Keep going. Keep going. It's all good. Yeah.
Damona Hoffman 29:36
Okay, so we curate that profile. And this is something that I do all the time. I actually have a free profile starter kit on my website. If you're just like, I don't know how to get started. That's what most people say to me. Like, I don't know how to write about myself. I don't know how to choose the photos. Don't worry, I got you covered. It's a it's a free kit at dataandmates.com But I'll tell you top line what you need is I like about five photos, I know certain certain apps, you have to do six. But more than that, and it starts to become your Instagram. And I like to think of it more as a curated look into your life. So the look that I love, I love art. And I go to museums a lot. And in the museum, you don't see all of the paintings, they have got a ton of paintings and storage, they only they curate it, they show you they tell you a story through the pictures that they choose. And so I want you to think of it like that you're the curator of the museum of your life. So you want photos that say the three C's that use the three C's, color, context, character, color is strategic. So back to like my days as a casting director, what's going to make me stop and pay attention? Oh, look at this bright red dress. Ah, I noticed this person. So it could be on the wall behind you. It could be in your clothing, but something with a bright, noticeable color will get someone to stop. Then context, tell your story through your photos. And nobody reads this is just the reality. Nobody's read for years. We were like, oh, dating apps? No, nobody was reading before. I've been saying the same thing for 15 years, no one's been reading. So tell your story through your photos, you like playing tennis, have a picture of yourself and your cute little tennis skirt, or running or whatever it is that you do. And then character is the one that most people forget. And that's your personality. So all those things that I said about me that made me weird, like, I had this nerdy bookish photo with my glasses on. And that was the photo that my husband was like, when I saw that picture, like the other pictures were pretty but when I saw that picture, I was like, Oh, I gotta write to this girl. She's different.
Molly Dare 31:43
I love that so much is that you have a term called enclosed cognition, is that right?
Damona Hoffman 31:49
I do not have the term I did an episode about that, including enclosed cognition,
Molly Dare 31:55
I believe that our clothes impact the way we think. But it also impacts how people perceive you. And I think that is so true. And I was even having this conversation the other day about, you know, when I'm sick or not feeling well, I still get dressed in and because if I stay in my pajamas, I feel sick all day, my energy is drained, I feel you know, I don't feel great. As soon as I forced myself to get dressed, take the shower, you know, whatever, amazingly, I feel better, right, and I come across better, no one would know I'm sick. And I think it's so important to think about it, it sounds shallow. But it's true. It's like how you present yourself not only helps you feel competent on the day, or where you're going or who you're meeting, but they perceive you in a certain way. So it is you know, important to think about
Damona Hoffman 32:44
completely, and I'm never going to be the dating expert, that's going to tell you, Well, you need to dress this way for a date, you need to you need to look more feminine. I'm I'm not into traditional gender roles. We haven't talked much about that. We've talked about so many things, but I'm non traditional gender roles. And I don't believe any of that stuff. But I do believe that the way you dress, as you said, affects how you feel. So I'll tell my clients look, don't go right from work to the date, you have to have have a transition activity. Even if it's just sitting in your car and listening to music, or have a change of clothes, go to the go to the bathroom at work put on your lacy panties. He's never going to see them. But you know that they're under there, you know, do something that's going to shift your energy. Because we bring a certain energy forward in work. Of course, you know, a lot of us are still working from home. And it's weird. But the pandemic is over. I heard so over now. So you can just go back to what you were doing before No. But if you whatever it is, even if it's from home, if you're working from home, and you've been sitting and you're sedentary, go take a walk, do something that's an energy shifter, that then is going to allow you to show up on the date with the right energy to be present, to listen to be confident and open to the possibilities where it goes.
Molly Dare 34:20
You know, and one more thing that I definitely want to talk about is this and I'm guilty of this is you know, whether it's the apps or friends suggesting somebody, I tend to dismiss people really quick, you know, within like 5-10 seconds like no not interested or just reading your profile, and I won't even get to the bottom of it. And I'll just like after the first paragraph like nope, swipe. I think you called and dating apathy or that's the term of it. I don't know if it's your term.
Damona Hoffman 34:46
I'll take credit for that one.
Molly Dare 34:47
Okay, perfect. I'm giving it to you. Why do we do that? I mean, I know we're in a society now where everything is just so fast and our attention span is five seconds long. That if somebody doesn't grab us in immediately, then we're just, you know, immediately dismissing them. And that's probably hurting us in the long run.
Damona Hoffman 35:06
Sure. And you know, you ask great questions, Molly, but you also have great answers because you answer the question. We, we are conditioned through our daily life, everything Instagram, email, texting, everything has sped up. So why wouldn't dating also speed up? Right? Everything is everyone is making decisions in the blink of an eye. And so that is also happening in dating, because that's what we're practicing everywhere else. So I believe that dating is a set of learn skills, and you always have an opportunity to practice something different. So I'll give my clients challenges like, Okay, you always go for the same type, or you always dismiss someone more quickly. You're now you have an assignment where you have to look for the reason to say yes, or you have to say yes to someone or just engage in conversation with someone that you otherwise might have said no to on the surface. And just the act of doing that, in repetition will start to change your, the way you're relating to other people. And you'll see your experience shift.
Molly Dare 36:16
That's such an important exercise, I am so guilty of doing this. And just again, I repeat the same pattern of the people that I'm interested in, who are clearly not my people. And if I would just venture out and just say yes, it's someone who maybe not off the top of, you know, whatever it looks like the right person for me, I may discover something else, way better than anything that I that I thought that I wanted. So, so important to think about. And I'm gonna go to you did touch on this a little bit earlier about creating the life that we want. But also the relationship we want. We talk a lot about this is what I want my life to look like, this is where I want to live and how many kids but what does our perfect or as perfect as perfect can be relationship look like? What does time together look like time apart look like? There's so much that goes into creating the relationship we want. How should we be looking at that?
Damona Hoffman 37:10
Well, now we're getting into the secret sauce. So this is what I do. In my programs, I have a lot of different modalities for getting people to the point where they can feel what that relationship will feel like, you know, will we do vision boards, we do another exercise called a living vision, an ideal scene, we literally map it out. Because think of anything else that you have been successful at in your life. You're very successful at you probably had a plan in mind. It wasn't just like, this is the goal. You were like, okay, and the step one, step two, step three, step four, this is how I'm gonna get there. That's what I do. And I put a, I put a framework around dating. And before I know your listeners right now are just like not Damona. I'm a boss, lady. I'm doing all that work. I don't want to do that in dating, too. But if you think of going back to the skills that you've practiced, you're so good at that. Why wouldn't you put that kind of attention back on the thing that I said at the top of the show was the most important decision you will ever make? Why is that the one that you leave to chance? Why is that the one you hope and wish for and say, Oh, they'll when it'll happen, it'll happen when you least expect it or like, I'm not going to look for it, or I don't want to do dating apps. Because that's not the story that I told myself, that this is not the story, I want to tell my kids or this isn't how I thought it would happen. Whatever the story is, these are these are just some of the stories I've heard. Like, what if that was not true. And you could have a different outcome. And you could change all of these areas of your life, just by using the skills that you've already perfected,
Molly Dare 38:57
so great, Damona where can people find you and follow you sign up for your program, all the things
Damona Hoffman 39:03
you can find me on the dates and matse podcast every Tuesday. And that's also a datesandmates.com where I also have that free profile starter kit. And periodically we're rolling out different program options I do my my major group program I do in January and September. So we're in between those two, but we're going to be rolling out a lot of options. So I suggest getting the profile starter kit if you're curious about this, and then you'll be the first to know when new coaching options open up
Molly Dare 39:33
and also give a follow to damona on Instagram because I love your posts and your your snippets of advice and stuff. It's very very helpful you guys to definitely follow her there as well too. But I thank you so much for joining me today and talking all things dating and relationships. Lord knows I can use all the help I can get and know there are many listeners trying to navigate the dating world in different stages of their journey to and thank you everyone for tuning in and see you next week with another impactful conversation
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